North Yorkshire County Council
North Yorkshire Police, Fire and Crime Panel
Minutes of the informal meeting held via Microsoft Teams on Thursday, 9th March, 2023, commencing at 1.30 pm.
Councillors Carl Les (North Yorkshire County Council) in the Chair; Keith Aspden (City of York Council), Peter Wilkinson (Hambleton District Council), Lindsay Burr MBE (Ryedale District Council), Mike Chambers MBE (Harrogate Borough Council), Tim Grogan (Selby District Council), Eric Jaquin (Craven District Council) and Darryl Smalley (City of York Council).
Community Co-opted Members: Martin Walker.
In attendance: Mabs Hussain (Deputy Chief Constable) (North Yorkshire Police).
Officers from the Office of the Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner: Zoë Metcalfe (Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner for North Yorkshire), Michael Porter (Chief Financial Officer), Simon Dennis (Chief Executive & Monitoring Officer), Tamara Pattinson (Director, Delivery and Assurance), Amanda Wilkinson (Director of Public Confidence) and Sarah Davies (Leadership Support to the Executive Team).
Officers present: Diane Parsons (Principal Scrutiny Officer).
Apologies: Councillors Helen Grant (Richmondshire District Council), Carl Maw (Scarborough Borough Council), Fraser Forsyth and Mags Godderidge.
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Copies of all documents considered are in the Minute Book
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Welcome and apologies
The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and apologies were noted. The Chair explained that the formal meeting of the Panel had been adjourned due to the forecasted extreme weather. The Chair reminded attendees that as this was an informal meeting, the Panel would be unable to take decisions at the meeting but recommendations could be made for approval at the next formal meeting in July.
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Declarations of Interest
Martin Walker notified that he is a Trustee of IDAS, which receives funding for its work from the Office of the Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner (OPFCC).
Councillor Keith Aspden notified that he is a Member of the LGA’s Fire Services Management Committee and Fire Commissioner, and the NJC for Local Authority Fire Services.
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Minutes of the Panel Meeting held on 6th February 2023
Recommendation -
That the minutes of the meeting held on 6th February 2023 , having been printed and circulated, be taken as read and confirmed as approved by the Panel at their formal meeting of 20th July 2023.
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Progress on Issues Raised by the Panel
Considered –
The report of the Secretariat updating on progress against actions from previous Panel meetings.
Item 1 – Information detailing actions and improvements to the fire and rescue service following their review of the London Fire Brigade (LFB) Report. It was highlighted that the outcomes of the LFB report will form part of a wider strategy around equality, diversity and inclusivity. The Panel will revisit progress on this in the autumn and as such this action was noted to be completed at this stage.
Item 2 – Wildlife crime. Members asked for consideration to be given by North Yorkshire Police to incorporating a field within data entry on crime recording which facilitates the capture of data on wildlife/rural crime prosecutions. The Commissioner felt that good progress is being made regarding wildlife crime but that she would like to see more progress in relation to prosecutions. It was agreed that a further update report will be incorporated into the work programme in due course. The action on the report was therefore noted as completed at this stage.
Item 3 – data on rape prosecutions in North Yorkshire. Information has been provided to the Panel and this action was noted as completed.
Members made reference to increases in domestic abuse and clarity was sought on the timeline for dealing with reports of domestic abuse. DCC Mabs Hussain outlined the process and how each case is individually graded according to risk and vulnerability, which then determines the process locally and with supporting agencies.
Recommendation –
That the report is noted by the Panel.
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Public Questions or Statements to the Panel
The Panel were advised that no public questions or statements had been received.
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Members' Questions
Members discussed with the Commissioner about the cohort of asylum seekers currently being accommodated in hotels in the Selby area. Local residents had raised queries with a local Member regarding attendant impact on those communities and on the need for appropriate support for the asylum seekers themselves. The Commissioner agreed to gather information on this and to also share with the Panel her letter to the Home Office seeking appropriate support for asylum seekers in the Selby area.
The Commissioner was advised that the process for supporting an amendment to speed limits in York by the police had not been as smooth as had been expected for the communities involved. It was felt that more support could be provided to local authorities to help facilitate decision-making. The Commissioner referred in response to the Road Safety Partnership as the appropriate forum for considering changes to speed limits. Funding has gone towards an enforcement review across NY and York, the results of which will be available in the summer.
The Commissioner was asked whether more can be done to advise communities where rogue salesmen and builders are operating locally or going door-to-door seeking trade and to explain what residents can do. The Commissioner agreed to take this away and reflect with the Chief Constable.
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'Enable' Programme Update
Considered –
The report of the Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner providing an annual update on the Enable North Yorkshire programme.
The Commissioner highlighted that while she feels enabling services collaboration between police and fire is in the public interest, she is not wedded to this principle across the board and at any cost; such a collaboration must be efficient and effective. The Commissioner acknowledged the recent concerns of the inspectorate regarding collaboration activity with the fire service being effective and providing value for money. The Panel heard that the last year had been a challenging one for the Enable programme but that the Commissioner has supported an evaluation of relative demand and process efficiency and effectiveness, with proposals due to come to her for a revised approach in April 2023. As a result, the Commissioner offered to bring an update report back to the Panel much earlier than the usual annual cycle.
Panel members noted the Commissioner’s full acknowledgment of the status of the programme and asked whether any savings have been delivered against it. The Commissioner highlighted in response that there have been issues embedding the programme correctly and that Covid-19 had also disrupted progress. The Panel expressed disappointment at the report and the lack of evidenced savings/benefits, particularly in view of enabling services collaboration being a cornerstone of the original case for transfer of governance of the fire and rescue service to the Commissioner’s office. It was agreed that the Panel should seek reports on the programme more frequently than annually.
Recommendations –
That the Panel:
(a) Notes the update provided on the status of the Enable programme by the Commissioner, and her plans for considering a revised approach; (b) Recommends that the Panel takes an update on the Enable NY programme more frequently than annually, to receive assurance or progress.
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Tackling Fraud and Cyber Crime in North Yorkshire
Considered –
The report of the Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner updating on work by North Yorkshire Police to help tackle fraud and cyber crime.
The Commissioner drew out elements of the report which highlighted the range of work that the police service undertakes with the public and with businesses to help tackle fraud and cyber crime. The Commissioner highlighted that fraud is a ‘growth area’ and has been identified as such within the updated Strategic Policing Requirement from the Home Office. As such, the Commissioner would like to work with education partners more to help educate young people.
Members commended the work underway by the police force to tackle cyber crime but queried whether the Commissioner felt that adequate resources are being directed to the task. The Commissioner felt satisfied at the level of resource currently but that as this is an identified ‘risk’ area of crime, it will need to be monitored closely.
Members urged the Commissioner to consider a campaign to encourage greater reporting as it was suggested that people can feel embarrassed that it’s happened to them and therefore are reluctant to report. The Commissioner advised that she would welcome a further conversation with Members interested in this to see what more can be done.
Recommendations –
That the Panel notes the report provided.
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Acquisitive Crime and North Yorkshire Police performance
Considered –
The report of the Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner reviewing recent data around acquisitive crime and any potential links to the cost-of-living crisis.
The Commissioner advised that current data doesn’t support the notion that acquisitive crime has significantly increased as a direct result of the cost-of-living crisis. The Commissioner outlined how the Safer Streets funding had been used to help reduce acquisitive crime, through the Protect Your Home scheme operational in Craven and Harrogate districts.
Further to a Member query, the Commissioner agreed to provide some data in relation to how video doorbells have helped to detect and prevent crime. The commissioner clarified that the areas where the scheme is operational are those identified as the most vulnerable to burglaries.
Recommendations:-
That the Panel:
(a) Notes the report provided; and (b) Receives further information from the Commissioner in due course around the impact of video doorbells in the prevention and detection of crime.
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Progress Report on the Implementation of the Risk and Resource Model
Considered –
The verbal update report of the Chief Fire Officer regarding the implementation of the Risk and Resource Model for the North Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service (NYFRS).
Further to a request for an update from the Panel, Jonathan Dyson highlighted the following:
· Significant progress has been made in relation to the specialist water rescue in Craven area; · Progress is underway in relation to the emergency response principles. Following the development of data dashboards, the FRS is now able to understand where it is exceeding the ‘predominantly rural’ average time (10 minutes 28 secs). With benchmarking against other ‘predominantly rural’ areas as identified by the inspectorate, the FRS has built in greater context around factors such as geography. The FRS is also building in exceptions where it does sit above a national average to better understand how and why it is in that position. · In relation to workstream on alternative duty systems (ADS), this has been paused due to national industrial action. Mr Dyson referred to the concerns raised nationally by fire services regarding the financial impact of pay rises agreed. The FRS would only be able to transition to an ADS where this is sustainable. · The FRS will be communicating the new policy and procedure with the public in April regarding managing attendance for fire alarms. · Mr Dyson highlighted that the FRS is in consultation with the trade unions regarding the York area changes. · Data is being recorded in the background regarding responses times in Harrogate and Scarborough areas but Mr Dyson advised that the changes in York must be completed before changes can be fully implemented in Harrogate and Scarborough.
The Panel wished to note that a written update report would have been preferred due to the level of detail provided. Members asked whether further information could be given around the Huntington area changes. However, the Panel were advised that as discussions are ongoing with the trade unions, the industrial relations protocol dictates that these must remain closed discussions until consultations have completed and information then shared with the workforce.
Members were keen to seek reassurance form the Commissioner that she will be able to continue with her plans around prevention in view of the financial picture. Mr Dyson advised that he may not be able to invest in prevention as significantly as he had hoped but that this will not prevent him driving forward changes. The Panel requested a further report in due course on the progress of the prevention work and any financial implications. Members also stressed the importance of keeping staff informed about changes.
Members also highlighted the focus on people, equalities and cultural change, as identified both by the inspectorate and at the recent LGA Fire Conference. Mr Dyson advised that he is seeking a third-party review of the organisation, reviewing back over five years of disciplines and grievances and also referred to the launch of the FRS’s EDI strategy.
Concern was expressed by a Panel member that information regarding progression of the RRM in Huntington had to be withheld due to ongoing discussions with the trade unions. Clarification was provided regarding the industrial relations protocol in place and that the Panel has an exemption which can be applied to meetings. Further detail on the statutory basis will be provided.
Recommendations:-
That the Panel:
(a) Notes the report provided; and (b) Recommends a further (written) report be brought to the Panel on progress of implementation of the Risk and Resource Model.
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Work Programme
Considered –
The Panel’s outline work programme.
Members recommended that a written update on the Risk and Resource Model be brought as soon as possible.
Recommendations:-
That the Panel:
(a) Notes the report; and (b) Recommends that a written update is brought back to the Panel regarding progress in implementation of the Risk and Resource Model.
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Such other business as, in the opinion of the Chairman, should, by reason of special circumstances, be considered as a matter of urgency.
As this meeting marked the last of the Panel in its current form, prior to local government reorganisation in North Yorkshire, the Chair wished to note his particular thanks to district and borough council colleagues for their valued input to the Panel.
Cllr Mike Chambers thanked colleagues on the Panel with whom he has worked over the last nine years and wished the Panel future success in its important role as a ‘critical friend’ to the Commissioner.
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The meeting concluded at 2.38 pm.
DP.